Now this is weird, even for me

Bob Vehring · Post by **Bob Vehring** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:46 pm

Ok, if ya been following along on the electrical nightmare. I did the ohm test, White/ red to red shows nothing. Should be the problem, but why did it blow. So thinking back, I had the engine on the bench last week, I painted the tub awhile back. I didn't see a CDI box. I asked, Tyler told me the box is on the back down by the water pump, but I didn't have any wires to hook up back there. So I start looking. no box, and someone before me crimped all the wires to each other.
Now heres the strange part. It ran last year but only for a day and I tore it apart.. It has ran for the last week but only in the shop because we have no snow, then suddenly no spark yesterday. The last time it ran, it didn't die, I shut it off..
Right now I pulled the pipes and clutch so I could get the engine up enough to get a puller on the flywheel, but the water is still in it and hose's hooked up so I really cant see down under it. My guess is I need a box, the plugs that are needed for it ,and probably the two smaller coils. Has anyone ever seen anything like this?

Post by **Vmax540** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:28 pm

Bob so, you are saying someone crimped an extra lenght of wire to the wires that come out of the engine/stator possibly to relocate the cdi to a easier to get to spot ? If so, I have to wonder if you have a bad wire or splice ? If all the ohm readings taken down at the point where the wires exit the engine are ok then you problem is in a wire, kill switch, or lastly the cdi. Rarely does the external igniton coil go bad. Spark plugs are BR9EV's or the newer version BR9EIX PS. I have complete wiring harnesses and CDI's.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Box-of-4 ... ccessories

Here is a cdi from Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GENUINE- ... ccessories

Bob Vehring · Post by **Bob Vehring** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:18 am

There is no CDI on the sled. I can't see until I pull the engine out all the wires or how they are wired, it appears like they simply took the wires that were suppose to go into the CDI box, and plugged them into the wires that would come out of the box. There is no box. the wires are just crimped together.
At first I thought it shouldn't run like that, but then I have a MSD Captive discharge box on one of my street cars. Wired per the factory instructions you can simply move two wires, and it by passes the MSD box, runs either way.
I never considered running a sled without the box so I have no idea how it would run without one. This one did run. I will say the spark looked somewhat weak to me, at least compared to my SRV, but it still started and ran
The guy I bought this from SAID (?) he had someone rebuild it, and he never could get it to run. Whoever rebuilt it, put iron liners in, did a hack job of matching the ports and set piston to wall at one and a half Thousands. I had to really clean the carbs to get it to start, and it stuck a piston with in 2 min's of idling. My guess is he thought the box was shot and by passed it.
Remember i ASKED A WEEK AGO WHERE THE BOX WAS MOUNTED? tHAT WAS BECAUSE WHEN PUTTING THE ENGINE IN (sorry) the only wires I had to hook up were the six coming out of the stator, nothing in back of the engine

Post by **Vmax540** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:26 am

I guess if you by passed the cdi then it would still send voltage to the ignition coil but, then it would fire both plugs on every revolution ? Don't-cha just love some back woods mechanics......Sorry about your luck but, anyways Merry Christmas !

Post by **tyler440** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:48 am

hmmmmmm i really dont know if it is possible to eliminate a cdi.....considering it is a Capacitor Discharge Ignition i thought the source coil sent power to the cdi which was stored up until the pickup coil sent a jolt and told the cdi to release it to the ignition coil where it was mulifplied and and blasted to the plugs.... you could be right that somehow, someone just wired the plugs together but that sure sounds weird.... im definitly watching this one!

Bob Vehring · Post by **Bob Vehring** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:57 am

In 30 years of sleds, I've never had any coils on the stator plate go bad. My guess even tho I don't understand modern elec very well is, having no box, is what caused the little coil to fail That makes me worry if the other two are damaged..
In the link you posted, the guy wants $209 for the box, haven't priced all 3 coils, I'm sure it will come to more then I paid for the sled. I have a few people I can call or maybe someone here has used parts cheap, but I'm not going to throw much money onto this thing. I won't be happy until I replace the cyl's the guy made a mess of, and who knows what else this guy did.
I think its going to live in the yard until trees grow threw the hood

Bob Vehring · Post by **Bob Vehring** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:21 am

Tyler Here's my understanding. MSD boxes which are pretty much standard on hot rods or race cars, are pretty much the same.
MSD stands for Multiple Spark, Discharge. Instead of one big spark going off instantly, the MSD takes that spark and studders it over a period of time. This assures complete burning of the gasses in the engine. The spark event is RPM / time relative, meaning it happens very fast a 9000 but is comparatively slow at 1000
In 4 cy engines especially with big cams, it really cleans up the low and mid range but the engine will run with out it also. Not only does it make more power, it keeps our new friend from California, Geo the tree humper, happy by not spitting all that unburnt fuel out the pipe..
I do not know if the boxes used on sleds intensify the spark also.

Post by **Vmax540** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:23 am

Again sorry, about your luck. I have complete wiring harnesses, stators and CDI's.

Chuck Schettler
W 814 226-1595 M-F 7-2
H 814 354-2687 Eve/Wknds.

Post by **tyler440** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:23 am

i always thought a cdi also messed with spark timing to help things rev out better... aka advances and retards the spark according to rpm....

Bob Vehring · Post by **Bob Vehring** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:44 am

Just talked with my friend that used to race these, He thinks it shouldn't run without a box. I'm going to pull the plastic cover off the tank on the chance that someone moved it under their. Thats the only place I haven't looked on the sled.
Chuck I will call, but will check this out first, probably not get much further till were back from Daytona. I thought we had a diesel truck lined up to pull the trailer, that feel through, back to the old motorhome, it gets a solid 5.5 MPG, looks like about $1300 for gas again, damn that hurts.
Tyler, depends on the box, they can make them do anything. On the karts we got new Digital ign. from PVL, that has timing curves built in, the old ones didn't have that.

Bob Vehring · Post by **Bob Vehring** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:54 pm

Making progress, found the box. Behind the sec clutch is a alum plate, looks like a gaurd. The front side of this is covered by the plastic louvers by your knees. Behind it is the box.
New question, everything on the staor plate looks to be held together with a hard, orange glue. The whole thing is covered in it. Looks like it will be tuff to get one coil off that plate. Is that factory?

Post by **tyler440** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:28 pm

yep someone definitly moved the cdi.... not a bad idea considering it is pretty damn hard to get at in the stock location, but you gotta make sure all of thier conections are good.... also on the stator.... the orange glue stuff is stock from what i recall.... i think with a demel or something you can probably grind the coil free

Bob Vehring · Post by **Bob Vehring** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:11 pm

Well, good news, Its up and running again, found a bad solder connection and re did it
I think the data acc system from the karts gets internet and it saw that comment about sitting outside in the yard till trees grew threw the hood

Post by **tyler440** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:24 pm

yeah that might have been it.... im glad you found that connection! it sure makes your day when you actually find what the problem was instead of it just suddenly working on its own! and the best part... you spent what? 50 cents with the solder and the electric to heat the gun?

Bob Vehring · Post by **Bob Vehring** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:41 pm

Ya true, but the kid is pissed thatI haven't touched a kart all day, and I made Wendy stay home from work because I told her I'd help her work on the motorhome.
But ya its running good, has temp gauges now, headlite works, all we need is snow and I don't have to go to Christmas tomorrow
Starts easy now didn't before.